I much prefer interacting with the Holy Spirit and reading Scripture. Im aware of his molecule statement. View all posts by Joshua Wu Kai-Ming. So thank you Jeff S. I have read John Pipers paper on why he believes what he does and have seen many debates both for and against Calvinism. God doesnt have internal conflicts, though sometimes the Bible portrays it this way to make a point.. I understand its maddening to shoot at a moving target. They find it sustaining. For example, the word total in Total Depravity is an absolutethere is no such rational idea as partly total, which is what some Calvinists want to say when they declare that humans are not as bad as they could beas if this matters in the dualistic Calvinist paradigm: God is Good, and youare not. 1 Cor. I dont know. I worked in a womens shelter and was surprised at the number of pastors wives (well-known ones, too) who were regulars in the shelter. I dont know that any of the venues get one closer to God than the others. @ Muff Potter: A person who has been abused should get A LOT of leeway in airing their feelings, because for a time (maybe a LONG time), the value of their free expression is more important than trying to protect a viewpoint. If the Bible is Gods Word, and we are capable of understanding it, where else can we go to answer the deeper questions except to ourselves? I am sure that there are other places that approach things this wayI just hadnt found them. We need robust physiotherapy (which invariably hurts, but in a good way not least because at least in part you do it yourself rather than just being done to). I chose to believe in the sovereignty of God and the goodness of God, even though I dont understand how those two things can co-exist. When we say, during the inevitable discussion of Gods sovereignty with a traumatized person, that even wrongs are ordained because God ordains all, we cause existential damage. What about what God foreordained someone else to say that is different. That Cals portray Cal in so many ways, even on the same points, adds another layer of confusion to the conversation for me. But my point wasnt to proof text Calvin. Do they represent your brand of reformed thought? Im not sure if Im doing justice to the guys views in how Im explaining it, so watching his video may be better. EGOTISM. The Calvinist thought process is: God has foreordained every word I say, therefore, I cannot be wrong. you'll occasionally see Calvinist doctrines pop up even among the occasional practitioner of any tradition. Learning as we go, making mistakes but so what, & learning from them. The WCF clearly states that God is not the author of sin. Questions should be addressed to the male authority in ones life. Yet, no matter how hard I tried to understand, I just couldn't get there. There is nothing wrong with being emotional about it, either, except that we need to not use it to demean the other. This, of course, is totally irrelevant. It stopped making sense when God began to show me in many profound ways that He loves me. [footnote]For more on what Calvinism espouses, see https://laikostheologos.com/introduction-to-soteriology/%5B/footnote%5D. No one at my church answers to RC Sproul or John Piper, even though their materials are used sometimes. FWIW, I dont consider any Arminian (see link to chart above) a non-believer. To be fair to Calvin and Darwin, Im not a Bulbeckist. Purity of Ideology, Dee. Every kindness & every meanness I do sends ripples outward and I birth the future by my words and deeds. Apparently Imade some remark that all infants who die go to heaven. James P. Boyce<br>Ernest Reisinger is a Calvinist<br>I know Jerry Bridges is Reformed, but I'm not certain how many points he is<br><br><br>John MacArthur is Baptist, but he calls his church Community Church (unless fredman knows something I don't know about! Recently, I had a Calvinist who knowns me say that i was not a Christian by very fact that I write this blog and call out some of the people that he admires. 1) That article. But RC, as a neo-Cal intellectual, is, I think, trying to avoid what so many Calvinists do with regularity, and have no problem with it: concede that at the root of what they believe are ideas that simply cannot be reconciled. And on occasion theyll even claim to love you, and to be rebuking you for your own good in order to bring you back to a more Biblical perspective. We can all agree that automaton doctrine is evil. Here are a few more (not necessarily Arminian but non-Calvnists): John Wycliffe, Vincent Taylor, John McClintock, Thomas Coke, C.S. The fervor of this movement reminds me of the early, heady days of the Jesus movement. Olson has occasionally been accused of heresy for not adheringto the current YRR view of doctrine. Believe me, Ive tried. Jeff S, Admittedly, Im not famous enough to have followers trying to define Bulbeckism. The 10 Best Non Calvinist Systematic Theology of 2022 Before making a purchase decision, we strongly recommend reading through the features of each Non Calvinist Systematic Theology and picking one that will work best for you. In fact, with respect and not intending to hurt feelings, it is the Calvinists who are misrepresenting their own doctrine by refusing to acknowledge the contradictions (whichthey do this by arguing that truth really cant be known). more of an approach to others than a nuance of their own philosophy. I know this sounds like a broad brush, but I think people need to know this dirty little secret. But I urge you to be careful in trying to correct what you see as a misunderstanding especially if the person you are correcting has dealt with abuse. I was aware of Reformed theology and had friends in each of those churches who tipped that way. Should that be will be a Calvinist since that is in the future?!?!?! Even if we say we agree in the fundamentals/indisputables Calvinism makes it clear, and both Jeffs have admitted, that there is no human agency capable of understanding truth fully. Some of his hearers might have been scared as, uh, heck. It's because Caleb was allegedly involved in multiple sexual relationships while on staff at daddy's church and he was, The Gospel Coalition now says not everyone can be a missionary. Why did he care so much about what the Bible said? The Calvinist thought process is: God has foreordained every word I say, therefore, I cannot be wrong. He said he found comfort from it. This is an absolutely beautiful statement! If the person makes the comment because he/she believes its important that others should know that there are people who can be hurt by that conversation in real life, how should that affect the online discussion? What I mean is doctrinally I cant find the distinction. In a faith that is centered on love, (What greater love is this?) it is hard for me to understand why abused people are so often further destroyed by that faith as presented by others. We can learn some from them, but much of what they proposed brought bondage to systems, pain, and even death to some earnestly seeking God. I was the outside force that acted on the chalk by throwing it at you. I think that is why it is good that Dee/Deb use the term Cavinista. And it wouldnt matter to me if what the person said was true or not. The ranks of well-known Arminians include historical and current day Roman Catholics, the Remonstrants of the 17th century and John and Charles Wesley. I didnt say we should be satisfied with the milk of the word. If you think I should be sensitive and hold my tongue at times, then I agree. God is immense beyond our comprehension and because of that, I do not believe the Calvinist ideas of Sovereignty (or the related principles of TULIP). Each Christmas, I am thankful that God works in mysterious ways. CALVIN! He beat me to the punch. And I get better at flying (so to speak). Im sure you didnt mean every single one. I had found the light. I realize that, even with these qualifications, there are those who find such a God abhorrent, and that there are some who will be upset by the notion of such a God, probably because of some terrible thing they went through. Yet why do I still love Jesus, the Bible and read so many Christian authors? If we get to where we can podcast, Ill drop you a link. It simply makes it harder for people who are trying to recover from abuse, and continue to believe that God is good and loves them, to want to engage in a search for Truth. Am very sorry to read of your sils diagnosis. Recent Arminians include Charles Finney, Dwight Moody, Billy Graham, Rick Warren and most other "mainline" preachers and evangelists. @ JeffB: Luther also wrote a great deal about Romans 8 and similar passages. It is counterproductive., I dont understand, then, why, on your blog, you allowed a Calvinism Free For All. I didnt notice any Calvinists telling people that God wanted you to be raped, or something like that. Founders made the list, as did John Piper, Jonathan Edwards, RC Sproul, James White and the first Southern Baptist confession of faith (which is still used at Southern and Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminaries, and which even the famous non-Calvinist Paige Patterson has signed), the Abstract of Principles. You may be sad that we all dont get what you get about Calvinism (and Im sad that you dont see it my way lol), but we dont need to dwell there. One section was exploring happiness. I really think that we have to go to Scripture with the intent of honestly, to the best of our ability, seeing what it says and submitting to its truth, instead of wanting it to confirm our beliefs. Tthe book recommend by someone on this thread, Is God to Blame? Is helping me shake off the residual effects of hyper-Calvinism, too. None the less and in spite of his ignorance in all things spiritual, he came to trust the Savior in 1973. all this proves is you are a weirdness magnet. I think Christendom could profit greatly from more women in the pulpit. I myself am a man, and know all too well, the sins and short-comings of mankind. Nope. This reminds me of what the guy in the videos (Refuting Calvinism video series) was saying in one video. And further, since Calvinism declares that God elects never based on any acts or will of man, of what use is it even to distinguish between good and evil, even if man could know them? I do hope when I sad that comment, I said illogical TO ME, as in general I hesitate to call other people views illogical. There is some truth in this, but to bring thought control into it turns it into legalism. Thank you, thank you, for getting it right! God doesnt have internal conflicts, though sometimes the Bible portrays it this way to make a point. This is a big issue for me, because theres a difference in believing in PSA and believing it is central to the Gospel or that believing a different atonement theology is a different Gospel. It is the ideas that underlie what Calvinism discusses that are problematic for all humans. I find it troubling too. And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, Which commandment is the most important of all? Jesus answered, The most important is, Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Charles . A group, rightly or wrongly, is defined by the fruit that we see (often the problem with Christianity in general, right?). Not that Im really doing this all that whole-heartedly. For my part, I honestly dont understand a need to defend Calvinism, or Luther, or the RCC, or Baptists, etc., etc. Ultimately, they could be reading an interpretation of an interpretation, adding their own along the way. )<br><br>A few lists you will want to check out. First list Randy Alcorn Thabiti Anyabwile Tom Ascol Voddie Baucham Joel Beeke Alistair Begg Jon Bloom Loraine Boettner James Pettigru Boyse John Calvin (of course) D.A. By wrong, do you mean untrue? Enter fatalistic determinism. Though its not nearly as esoteric and egghead as supralapsarianism vs. infralapsarianism. Ham- as a proof text for poor science. Even the Bible uses hyperbole to make pointsa lot! I think this is true. Ah yes, those were the days A friend of mine came to the Lord while living in the hills above Santa Barbara in a teepee and smoking a lot of pot He and his wife were some of the most sane, grounded people I knew in the 80s. It is a goal of this blog to extendthe dialog to include Calvinists and even find areas with which we can agree. Those of us who were vocally opposed to the leadership during the days of the Brent Detwiler Wiki Wars were quietly asked to leave, and they held open the door for me and my family with dulcet platitudes and smiling faces. Some, myself included, who spent years in controlling and abusive churches would say that to be infantilised is the last thing we need. 9Marks is another group which promotes the fact that they, the local church, get to decide who is saved and not saved. You might want to read The Institutes some time. I was taught for years that my salvation was only a happy side effect of Gods bringing glory to Himself- and after years of trying to rationalize how horrible things that happen are scripted for us by God- and after years of listening to systematic theology that seeks to cram all the unexplainable nature and mystery of God into a neat, cut and dried smugness with a pat answer to everything- I am like a kid in a candy store. It is not love to push Calvin.. Lin wrote: Sometimes I get it right, sometimes I get it wrong. It doesnt cause comfort, which might be expected, but revulsion because of the nature of evil. At first, I thought I had missed something in my Christian walk. Some of the formers non- above-board activities may be partly an outgrowth of his beliefs. Then I checked the remaining word-count: well over 600,000. I read CS Lewis, Francis Schaeffer and many others. This is very important to get a true and not twisted idea of what Calvinism, in its purest form, is. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said to him, You are right, Teacher. I met my husband when he wandered over to Park Street after he attended a service at Tremont Temple. Does not a little yeast leaven the whole batch? The hard part about this is I dont think these folks even realize what they are doing. With all due respect to the Jeffs, look at their root assumption, and the glaring contradiction: they constantly maintain that TRUTH as a function of God can by no means be apprehended by finite humans, and yet resolutely declare in the same breath that this is the very proof of the soundness of their doctrine. I was a Jesus Movement convert, too in 1972. I am not saying that Calvinists are going to hell or anything radical like that. In addition to the Holy Scriptures as the most important norm, Calvinism serves, apart from Calvin's own theology, as an independent continuation of the theological work of others including that of Augustine and Luther, as well as the works of Reformers such as Philip Melanchthon, Martin Bucer, Heinrich Bullinger, and Theodore Beza, all of whom